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Debriefing

EggRoll97's RfA2 debriefing

This is my RfA debrief, I suppose. I ran the gauntlet, so to speak, in April. My RfA closed on the 19th, with a 65.8% support percentage. This put it in the discretionary range, and a crat chat was opened, which ended unanimously in no consensus to promote.

Pre-RfA

Before I pulled the trigger, so to speak, on a nomination, I was definitely nervous, and not really sure if it would even stand a chance. I decided to do so anyways, even sans nominator, because I wanted to help out, and I didn't see the AELECT as really being too much of an indication either way on which way an RfA would go. I'm definitely not a big writer or anything, as can be clearly seen by the fact that this very reflection is only around a few paragraphs, so I'm sure my RfA nomination and questions answers seemed pretty small to a lot of people casting !votes.

During the RfA

During the RfA, I had a lot of support and more opposition than I originally expected. I knew I would face a significant opposing force due to content creation, though I never thought it would be as significant as it turned out. I really appreciated the supportive comments I received privately, and the polite tone that many of the oppose !votes even had. It also helped with the stress that did arise to have others that responded to some of the opposition, such as those in the technical areas, like 0xDeadbeef and Pppery, among others.

The big question

The biggest question, I guess, is "do you plan to run again", which I think I've seen float around a bit near the end of the RfA. The answer is almost definitely no. I think one shot through a standalone RfA may well be where I draw my limit. I don't think I could stomach putting myself through it again. If at some point the viewdeleted rights are unbundled from the admin toolset, I would likely put myself before the community again for solely those unbundled rights, but absent that occurring, I am doubtful I would bite the bullet again.

As to where I go from here, I suppose just where I always have been. Tucked away in the backend of the encyclopedia. While the admin toolset would have made many things far easier (viewdeleted to view deleted revisions, and editinterface to edit MediaWiki pages, for example), they are ultimately tools I can obviously live without, and can make requests of admins to do for me, even if doing so is sometimes tedious.

The differences with AELECT

It's been pointed out on my talk page that I'm the first person to have experienced going through AELECT, then going through a traditional RfA, and I received some questions about the two processes and my experience with them. I definitely found AELECT to be less stressful, though I felt it had less focus on the individual candidate and more on the slate of candidates. On the other hand, a traditional RfA vets exclusively the specific candidate being put up for adminship, and tends to also show more explicit participation than I received in my candidacy in AELECT. As surprised as some may be at this, I actually found a traditional RfA to be less nerve-wracking, as it was a straight week of a nomination, and I could easily see all the !votes coming in, with reasons attached that I could read through and reflect on in the moment. AELECT, though, had a week of voting, where I was completely in the dark. I'm sure that will be more helpful for some, and I found it to be an interesting new way to request adminship, but I feel like it didn't give me nearly as much of a chance to answer questions (indeed, there are almost double the questions in a traditional RfA, allowing more opportunities to answer direct questions from others) as a traditional RfA did.

Some overall reflections

I found a lot of really respectful and helpful discussion, and a lot of very well-researched points made on all sides of the RfA. I'm proud to have made it even into the discretionary range, especially with no significant content creation, which has been described on my talk page as something of a badge of honour. It's definitely something good I'm taking away from this RfA, and something I'm definitely happy about.

I absolutely didn't expect some of those in the support camp to be in there, which was really moving. I genuinely found myself moved by the amount of people who were willing to show up and opine at my RfA overall, regardless of which opinion they espoused or which side they were on. I discovered the true attraction of nominators, being frankly just someone to ask about all of this. Self-noms are great to have around, and I received a few very positive messages privately from various people with words of encouragement, but I also definitely was on my own with the answers to questions that really were outside of my depth, in hindsight.

Personally, I think the biggest part I was truly shocked by was that RfA didn't make me feel stressed so much as helpless. I spent a little while staring at RfA !votes, and sort of realizing how out of my depth I was by some of the oppose comments, while also being emboldened to keep the RfA open based on the support comments still trickling in.

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  • Thanks so much for this report. I really hate hearing that these processes are negative experiences for good Wikipedians, but it’s really important to know that’s still the case. Appreciate all your work. Innisfree987 (talk) 03:10, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also thanks for putting this together, and an interesting anecdote into AELECT. CMD (talk) 03:42, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • @EggRoll97: If you are willing, could you help clarify why you found an admin election less stressful than an open viewpoint request for adminship, but more nerve-wracking? Perhaps you were referring to different phases of each process? No worries if you feel you've already said your piece. I appreciate your sharing of experiences! isaacl (talk) 05:09, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

    As surprised as some may be at this, I actually found a traditional RfA to be less nerve-wracking, as it was a straight week of a nomination, and I could easily see all the !votes coming in, with reasons attached that I could read through and reflect on in the moment. AELECT, though, had a week of voting, where I was completely in the dark.

    Sounds like something about the opaqueness of AElect voters. Aaron Liu (talk) 18:49, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Like Aaron Liu said above, I had a lot more to reflect on very immediately, while AELECT didn't really give a lot of feedback. It gave some, definitely, and that was good, but the anonymity of !voting comes at the cost of not necessarily needing to express opinions to the candidate. The traditional RfA format also meant I could take feedback as it came in, as opposed to a few comments, then a failing vote result. Please don't get me wrong though, I think AELECT is great for some, it just happened that a traditional RfA format was more my speed. EggRoll97 (talk) 00:15, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure; I was just trying to understand how those aspects led to a process that was less stressful but more nerve-wracking, as I would have thought being nerve-wracking would also be stressful. But in any case, thanks for the info! isaacl (talk) 01:23, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • @EggRoll97: Thank you for your effort to summarize your RFAs and compare AELECT with traditional RFA. On my home wiki, the Chinese Wikipedia, the number of questions asked in RFAs has been halved since introducing AELECT and deprecating traditional RFA due to canvassing and harassment concerns pointed out in the office actions in 2021. Having two wikis showing the same trend, I believe the phenomenon you described was not a coincidence, but a common issue that comes with voting, that people are encouraged to simply state their stances instead of pointing out problems and asking about their concerns, a process crucial to concensus building, where consensus "takes into account all of the proper concerns raised," and where the "proper concerns" are those intended to help achieving "the Five Pillars—Wikipedia's goals."
    Another problem that arises with the introduction of AELECT is the existence of disruptive (or otherwise non-constructive in the context of consensus building) rationales of voting for or against candidates, while there are no protocols to strike out such nonsense, and bureaucrats must strictly follow the numbers. (We grant those who got 65% temporary admin flag that must be reconfirmed at the next AELECT, so things might be better than here.) As a Wikipedian planning to run for adminship on the Chinese Wikipedia, this is becoming a real concern to me: Apart from the degradation of community involvement in AELECTs compared to traditional RFAs, do you think that the results of voting for adminship may go against community consensus (or what would have been reached if a traditional one were held instead), either supporting, opposing, or being uncertain about granting the admin flag? 1F616EMO (talk) 11:33, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't think it goes against community consensus necessarily, though I think the candidate in a massive AELECT receives ultimately less feedback than a candidate in a traditional RfA, and to some degree, I think the ability of monitors/crats to clerk RfAs keeps things in order. With AELECT, no reason is required to be attached to one's vote, and this does lead to a lot of opposition without necessarily knowing whether that opposition is in line with whatever was stated in the RfA page, or whether there is an entirely different issue with one's candidacy. I will note that I received a 39% in AELECT, and a 66% in RfA, but that isn't necessarily an indication that the AELECT voting didn't reflect the consensus of the community. EggRoll97 (talk) 00:20, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your honest plus/minus personal feedback of the AELECT process. There appears to be a negative bias against any editor who self-nominates for adminship - as opposed to being recommended for it by at least two other admins. I took a look at your user page and had another admin recommended you through RfA you likely would have passed. It is what it is and you are to be commended for being willing to continue your work on Wikipedia rather then be discouraged by the process. Blue Riband► 12:36, 24 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for writing this, EggRoll97. I really do think that if you'd had nominators, you would have passed (though perhaps you'd have delayed your run to do so), but I'd like to disagree with Blue Riband above that there's a "negative bias" against people who don't have nominators. Well, I suppose there probably is a bit of a one, but that's not really the thing that nominators are for, in my opinion - the real value of having nominators is that you have two experienced administrators working with you before the nomination, giving you helpful and frank advice. They can let you know if you're not quite ready, give you suggestions about your answers to the three standard questions, and so on. Also, at least in my experience, I just found it comforting to know they were there during the process. I really encourage any prospective admins reading this to reach out to the admin you know best (that doesn't mean you have to be besties, just someone who knows your name), or at least to an admin who frequently works in the areas you do, to talk about nomination or adminship in general before taking the plunge. -- asilvering (talk) 20:27, 28 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

















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