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Harrison Keely
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Op-ed

Beeblebrox on Wikipediocracy, the Committee, and everything

The Signpost is committed to publishing a diversity of perspectives, and this article reflects the opinions of its author. Beeblebrox is a long-time Wikipedia editor, administrator (since 2009) and former Arbitration Committee member, who was elected and served for three terms (2013, 2019, and 2021).
Exhaling copious amounts of weed smoke, ripping your shirt off and yelling obscenities is ok, and even expected in this situation. PROTECT YA NECK SON!
Do any of that here and you're going to have a serious problem.

On-wiki-vs-off-wiki

Wikipedia has policies for a reason. We are trying to do something here, this is explicitly not just a place to hang out chatting and gossiping. A certain amount of decorum and respect is generally appropriate and this is a policy that has strong support from the community, even though enforcement is uneven at best. Policies like WP:CIVIL are intended to remind users that although nobody here is paid, this is basically a workplace. Maybe it's more like a Montessori school in that all work is self-directed and there is no deadline for completing it, but we still don't expect users to randomly attack one another or to post animated emojis in article space because they think it's funny.

Off-wiki criticism forums do not have these rules, that is their entire point. I'm mainly speaking of Wikipediocracy (WPO) here, as it is the only one of those forums I participate in. Some of the other forums truly are hate or attack sites, as opposed to being mostly focused on genuine criticism. So, a person might say something on WPO that they would never say here, because it would be outside policy to do so. This is not a crime, although in some extreme cases it could and should lead to on-wiki sanctions.

Insults and name-calling

Some folks on these external sites like to come up with nicknames based on a user's on-wiki name. Obviously, this is not allowed here. There is also arguably little to no value in it, especially if endlessly repeated every time the user in question comes up. Sometimes they say things like "<username> is a total idiot who should have their head examined" which, even if true, is unlikely to be seen by the user in question as useful feedback. Part of this trend may be due to the fact that, by and large, the person so targeted is not present in the discussion, but as has become very, very apparent; sometimes they might be lurking, reading the discussion without participating in it. In my opinion, it just isn't helpful, but it equally is not an excuse for the user so targeted to start doing things on Wikipedia that violate Wikipedia policies.

I would say that some of these folks need to grow up, but, in many cases, so do the targets of their comments. If you want to engage someone who is criticizing you, step up and do it in the place where they are doing so. If you don't want to do that, your remaining option is to let it go, not to start attacking them on-wiki.

Outing

Nobody can deny that there is material posted on WPO that, were it posted on Wikipedia, would violate the outing policy. Wikipedia's outing policy is substantially stricter than pretty much the entire rest of the internet. It is forbidden to speculate on the identity of other users in any way, including other online identities on other websites that may clearly be the same person, unless that person has disclosed that connection on Wikipedia itself. Whether one agrees with it or not, this is policy and should be adhered to.

WPO does not have any such rule. Most websites don't. It isn't generally considered a horribly invasive act to notice that User:Steve D edits content about the band Billy and the Boingers, and that some guy on Twitter or whatever named Steve Dallas is, in fact, the band's manager. Saying as much on a completely different website manifestly cannot be considered a violation of any Wikipedia policy. Although it might be preferable that, instead of posting it on a forum, the information was sent to paid-en-wp@wikipedia.org, we cannot obligate users of other websites to do so.

Note that this is not the same thing as doxing, which involves posting non-public personal information about someone without their permission.

What happened with me and the Arbitration Committee

YOU'RE OUTTA HERE

The rest of this is about my specific situation; if you don't care about that, you can stop right here.

This is a bit more personal. In November 2023, the Arbitration Committee, of which I was a duly elected member at that time, informed me that they were considering removing me from office due to disclosures I had made on WPO. Plenty has been written about that elsewhere; look it up if you want to know more. The short version is that I did what they said I did: I disclosed certain material from ArbCom's mailing list publicly on WPO. In a surprisingly-quick decision for the committee, I was not removed per se; the committee went with the odd decision to suspend me for six months, despite the fact that my term was ending in a month anyway, and I wasn't running for reelection. I could accept that, even if I didn't quite understand the reasoning behind a suspension when I was done anyway. What I did (and still do) have trouble accepting is that they also revoked my Oversight and Volunteer Response Team access when there was no hint of any sort of wrongdoing there.

Every arbitrator is granted these by default — along with CheckUser access — but I'd already had the Oversight permission for twelve years on my own merit, and there had never been any serious issues with my use of it, or with keeping material I saw in the course of using it confidential.

But it's the same thing, isn't it?

I don't think so.

What do you think? The same?

Functionaries are appointed by the Committee, and they all know it is their responsibility to keep their mouths shut about what they see when using these powerful tools (which can certainly include personal data). It was, and is, important that such material be held in the strictest confidence.

Arbitrators are elected by the community to represent them at the highest level of dispute resolution. The community knew who I was, and what to expect, and I ran on a promise of trying to be more transparent when possible. I did what I did when I thought there was good reason to do it, even if it technically violated the level of privacy one normally expects from an email discussion. I wasn't there to toe the line and do what the other arbs wanted, I was there to do what I was elected to do — not once, but three times. There absolutely was not any personal information of any kind in any of the material I disclosed. It's an important distinction, and I would never release the kind of extremely sensitive material one routinely sees when using these tools.

What is important here is not that anyone agrees with my view — they only need to ask if they believe that I genuinely feel the way I say I feel about it.

I've apparently failed repeatedly at making that point to the Committee, possibly because I don't think I've ever put it quite like that. Maybe next year I'll try again. It is important work, and I did it for a very long time.

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  • If you want to engage someone who is criticizing you, step up and do it in the place where they are doing so. Mhm. When I see a group of people talking bad about me, I'm totally going to join the hostile group to make my point. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's hard to take criticisms seriously when they do so off site, considering we don't ban or block folks for criticizing anybody here. So long as it doesn't escalate to harassment anyways. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:42, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I feel like this seriously downplays the doxxing and harassment that comes from WPO. They're so casual about dropping real life information that helps to identify users, particularly administrators, that they feel are not doing a good job or who they disagree with. While the site may have had good intentions to start with, it's a toxic tire fire that can't be taken seriously as a "criticism site" when it allows such conduct. By allowing such conduct the admins and mods on the site and endorsing said behaviour, and that's entirely not okay. Their actions and harassment have forced folks off the site, a notable recent example being GeneralNotability, the now former arb. Downplaying it is inappropriate when the main person who does so is protected and reports on the site go absolutely nowhere. Hey man im josh (talk) 00:40, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I tried to write a few things, but reconsidered. I'll leave it simple: Beeblebrox, why did you think this was a good idea? LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 01:02, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Noting that Liliana has in the past, and very recently, been personally attacked on the site. Hey man im josh (talk) 01:08, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hence my comment. Beeblebrox enabled those people. I have no sympathy at all for him. LilianaUwU (talk / contributions) 05:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • So, a person might say something on WPO that they would never say here, because it would be outside policy to do so. This is not a crime, although in some extreme cases it could and should lead to on-wiki sanctions. That may be so, but those who wish to say such things on WPO should consider how it might affect community trust here. They should also know that the so-called "hidden forum" is anything but. Anything that might be pushed into the "hidden forum" should probably be kept to themselves if they want to maintain the community's trust. If you want to engage someone who is criticizing you, step up and do it in the place where they are doing so. I disagree with this statement. If an editor is going to an external forum specifically to bypass WP:CIVIL and WP:HARASS in their criticism (which based on my observations seems to be a big reason people flock to WPO in the first place), it should absolutely be made known to the larger Wikipedian community. - ZLEA T\C 01:07, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's laughable behaviour that makes you the subject of a joke if you can't post your criticism on site considering we don't ban or block folks for criticism. They typically just want an echo chamber to complain based on feels. Hey man im josh (talk) 01:10, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree. I'm not saying there aren't legitimate reasons that an editor might want to take their criticism to WPO rather than Wikipedia, but I have yet to think of any. - ZLEA T\C 01:13, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The legitimate reasons are typically they're indeffed for valid reasons or want an echo chamber. Those are, I suppose, valid reasons. Hey man im josh (talk) 01:17, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I suppose you're right, but that doesn't make me feel any better about the idea of editors in good standing, including admins, willingly associating themselves with the site. - ZLEA T\C 01:28, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • As has been pointed out previously, ArbCom did not and cannot revoke someone's VRT access. The VRT administrators make their own decisions. There was no request made to the VRT admins to do anything about that access and so Beeblebrox claiming ArbCom revoked it remains incorrect. Barkeep49 (talk) 01:16, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • A loss of trust is a loss of trust. If an editor were elected to a high-trust position, and followed up by not only breaching that trust, but by breaching it to divulge confidential information (even if not PII) to a den of indeffed hyenas who revel in harassment, then trust is breached in all forms, in all places. It's the same reasoning behind all the blacklisted sources at RSP: if the source posts fake news too many times, it's deprecated as a whole - never mind if it has a 100% accuracy while reporting the weather. Wilhelm Tell DCCXLVI (talk to me!/my edits) 02:57, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Natural justice says dispute resolvers must be unbiased and be perceived as being unbiased. Otherwise, editors feeling biased-against won't accept the Arbitration Committee's decisions. This is incompatible with full transparency, if you're being transparent about which editors you dislike. It is a higher standard than most editors, but is one the committee has made clear to you. You're a good editor, I voted for you in the past, and your actions don't conflict with being part of the Wikipedia community. But you can't be a committee member and say what you say. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 04:22, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lol. Lmao, even. Isabelle Belato 🏳‍🌈 11:50, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

















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